rchevalier: The Child

Rachel Chevalier (

rchevalier) wrote,
@ 2007-10-13 14:57:00

Current mood:	aggravated
Current music:	luna - the weasel king (?!)
Entry tags:	100_original, shorts, writing

The Child
I forced myself to do a bit of editing. This piece is really just a collection of aphorisms, but it’s something different from my norm. *shrug*

100_original 'children' (table)
originally fifty_flashes 'adult' and 'child' (post)

The Child
Rachel Chevalier

:i

THE ADULT must understand that they are so only by agreement with others like themselves; but THE ADULT is really only THE CHILD with simpler ambitions. THE CHILD, after all, is ever the eldest in age…

THE ADULT knows black from white and left from right and right from wrong, whereas THE CHILD cares only for colors beyond shades of gray, the bright and the vivid in every hue, splashed across the face and scrawled across the mind, regardless of presumptions of aesthetics, for THE CHILD knows naught but the self, for that is all one can know, and even—that—

THE ADULT does not care for differences but similarities in friends, and in enemies similarities are not seen except in the carnival mirror; THE CHILD, on the other hand, never assumes stability in similarity. Indeed, THE CHILD delights in the company of contrasts; whether or not they are merely in the mind is not THE CHILD’s concern.

THE ADULT cares only for who and how, and THE CHILD can only comprehend what and when; yet THE CHILD only considers why.

I basically mashed two old flashes together, scrambled them up a bit, tried to get something philosophical going.

Obviously I’m not talking about lollipop-sucking children here, but a philosophical concept of the eternal child; and the adult is one that doesn’t bother with philosophy or even with proper thought, that considers oneself already grown and not requiring of change or improvement or doubt. And so this contrasts the two…

...maybe. I don't know if my idea of a "child" and an "adult" really get across, so concrit/discussion about the topic would be much appreciated. :-) Oh, and the aphorismness. I'm never going to be Wilde, but I can try for a bit of wit, right?

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fairyhunter
2007-10-14 07:24 pm UTC (link)

Current music: luna - the weasel king (?!)
Win! ^-^

I don't know if my idea of a "child" and an "adult" really get across, so concrit/discussion about the topic would be much appreciated.
Your definitions of adult and child did get across very well, I thought. It was mind-twisting, because the one you were calling adult was the immature, unexperienced one, and the child was somehow wiser and also freer and more spontaneous because the child is more willing to accept change. So you basically applied pseudo-opposite definitions to child and adult, and then used those to illustrate a point about people who are not young (at least literally). Gah. *isn't making sense*

I liked it, despite being unable to talk about it coherently. It made me think. *nodnod* But unfortunately my brain is currently leaking out of my ears.

I loffed the similarities/differences paragraph especially. Although I thought the beginning of "whether or whether not they are merely in the mind is not THE CHILD’s concern" was weirdish, and might have done better as just a "whether or not" instead of "whether or whether not" (even if the second one is technically correct, which is possible).

*stops attempting to make sense*

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rchevalier
2007-10-14 07:37 pm UTC (link)

Current music: luna - the weasel king (?!)
Win! ^-^
Didn't like it. :P

But unfortunately my brain is currently leaking out of my ears.
Oh, brain leakage. I recommend a good industrial-grade bucket, I find that my pH levels tend to go a bit funny when I think too much (like lately.)

Although I thought the beginning of "whether or whether not they are merely in the mind is not THE CHILD’s concern" was weirdish, and might have done better as just a "whether or not" instead of "whether or whether not" (even if the second one is technically correct, which is possible).
Eh, I think they're both technically correct. Though yeah, I think yours sounds better rhythmically. *changes*

Though... mleh. I was trying to show that general psychosis was more common in 'children'? I dunno. Maybe I ought to cut that whole tangent, or replace it with something? Since that's tangental.

*isn't making sense*
No, you're making sense, that was exactly what I was getting at. :D *feels all coherent and fuzzy inside*

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	(Anonymous) 2007-11-06 07:22 pm UTC (link)
	That's good stuff! Hate the formatting, though. I've always felt that the bolding of words takes that inherent egoism in writing to a dangerous place. =/ I liked most of your simpler work, in the sense that complexity is simplicity... sometimes... It's a fine line. Once again, good job. (Reply to this) (Thread)

	rchevalier 2007-11-07 11:07 am UTC (link)
	Mmm, who is this? The bolding on the LJ version is a bit much, I agree... on my .doc file it's not as conspicuous. shrug I was going for the effect like Death's dialogue in the Terry Pratchett books... Anyhow, thanks for the comment and stuff. (Reply to this) (Parent)(Thread)

(Anonymous)
2007-11-09 09:17 pm UTC (link)

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rchevalier
2007-11-10 02:19 pm UTC (link)

Let's say an admirer? Sometimes your work reminds me of my own writing, though I've nowhere near your level of personal clarity, diction, etc. I'm constantly frustrated by my inability to get the point across, and I can usually pick up a thing or two reading around.
*flattered*

Do you have a LJ or a site or something?

I need a primer on Pratchett... I've never read the guy and have no idea where to start.
I'd start with "Thief of Time". It's still my favorite, and unlike some of the other subseries within Discworld, most of the characters/concepts are new enough that you don't miss a whole lot by not knowing their backstories. Pratchett is brilliant, though. Funniest stuff you can imagine.

You can (probably) imagine where the italicization is (I can't get it to show up).
You have to use HTML tags - it's very useful to know the basics, I'd go do some quick reading around.

Here's something I pulled out to maybe get some of your ideas on how I can move along...
I think the biggest thing you could do is to start with more. More prose, more description, more explanation. I wouldn't start from what you have now - I'd get out a new sheet of paper, keep the ideas and some of the key phrases that stick in your mind, and have this scene fully fleshed out. Once you've got that, I'd then prune it down to something more compact. There's all kinds of little details that seem especially relevant considering you're talking about a particular topic - school shootings - that don't come across in the prose itself. If that's particularly hard for you, try doing some exercises to make you write longer - just do straight description about random things. Like a rocking horse: pick an angle and force yourself to do 500 words on that angle and that angle alone. It is far easier to go back and prune than it is to go back and add.

The other thing - when you're writing short & intense, a good way to make it wrap up better is to use a motif. You start with something about a noose, then you have some unconnected stuff, then you have some flower bits, then you have asphyxiation to link back to noose... I'd make it stronger, more within the fic itself, but also be careful to make a clean separation between nooses and guns.

Eh, if that made any sense. :P I'm not the best at critiquing...

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-11 03:55 am UTC (link)

I'm around here and there, though I'd rather not say exactly where ;)

Thanks for the suggestion; I see Pratchett with a whole shelf to himself... *intimidated* And all the stuff looks like its based on something else... he should have an encyclopedia or a beginner's guide or something :)

I love your ideas, and I'm usually a bit "fleshier" when I write. But I need a lot of discipline to sustain a thought, so... *nods*

I'll work on stuff like that, for sure. And double points for truthiness; it's SO much harder to add stuff to, let's say, a college essay. Didn't I read somewhere that you're applying to Reed? I'm probably going to UPenn or possibly Johns Hopkins or Princeton (for economics or biochemistry, of course). We might have even been able to meet at sci oly nationals if I took it seriously enough, but it was either that or varsity sports, and in that sense, I'm a typical jock. *shrug* ;)

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rchevalier
2007-11-14 11:34 am UTC (link)

I'm around here and there, though I'd rather not say exactly where ;)
Pbbbt.

And all the stuff looks like its based on something else...

A lot of what he does is satire - like a good deal of Witches Abroad is a sort of fantasy version of Twain's Innocents Abroad... or Masquerade making fun of Phantom of the Opera... though it's much more complicated than most modern satire. They remind me more of Pride & Prejudice - not so exaggerated that you can't also enjoy it as just good literature...

Didn't I read somewhere that you're applying to Reed?
Yep. Sent in my application the other day. >.< I hope I get in... I have the scores and stuff, but I'm a little antsy because they're making all these exceptions for me...

We might have even been able to meet at sci oly nationals if I took it seriously enough, but it was either that or varsity sports, and in that sense, I'm a typical jock. *shrug* ;)
Jocks at your school don't seem to be quite like jocks at my school. XD

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-14 03:34 pm UTC (link)

Pbbbt.
Truth be told, I'm embarassed ;)

A lot of what he does is satire - like a good deal of Witches Abroad is a sort of fantasy version of Twain's Innocents Abroad... or Masquerade making fun of Phantom of the Opera... though it's much more complicated than most modern satire. They remind me more of Pride & Prejudice - not so exaggerated that you can't also enjoy it as just good literature...
I picked up Thief of Time on Amazon a few days ago... Never have any time for the good 'ol bookstore anymore :(

Yep. Sent in my application the other day. >.< I hope I get in... I have the scores and stuff, but I'm a little antsy because they're making all these exceptions for me...
How so?

Penn's a long-shot because of the program I'm applying to, but Wharton seemed good enough an alternative to apply early =/

Jocks at your school don't seem to be quite like jocks at my school. XD
"in that sense," being the key term ;) I party (probably more than I should), but I'd much rather settle down with Human Action or Prachett, perhaps, when he gets here.

Maybe you're selling 'em short ;) Though I doubt it... Yep, definitely doubt it.

I tried the free write on rocking horses :) (too literal?) I couldn't do it, and it turned into a sort of flashback... I don't know nearly enough about rocking horses to do 500 words without inflicting some sort of bodily harm. I also rushed it a lot (wrote it during AP econ) (excuse the typos; there shouldn't be too many, but I'm copying this directly from the page):

Thomas approaches the rocking horse carefully, for it stands on wobbly legs. The paint, once white and fair, fades to splotches of dull stock. Mane and tail are indistinguishable from thick body. The treads are slightly unbalanced, like a cripple on his last shreds of dignity, an old man leaning heavily on his cane.
The saddle is smooth from children’s bottoms and careless laughter. A knight sits astride the saddle, battling night-horrors and rescuing the damsel in distress with a sweep of his sword and a leap of his horse. A lady commands the applause of the greatest crowds in all the land, winning equine contests with a self-deprecating smile, insides churned to butter. Thank you, she mouths, and she throws a gloved hand into the air, drinking their adoration… meekly. Thank you. The handsome stable boy leads her away, and they share a look and a smile. Thank you, thank you.
John Wayne rides into town on his trusty steed, dismounting with a manly grunt, eyes full of abandon and wanton challenge. The bad guys are nowhere to be seen as he swaggers forward, all fire and brimstone, duty and retribution. The evil mastermind in this epic is a bumbling oaf. He trips over himself to free his ill-chosen captive. I don’t want this to get ugly in front of the lady, Wayne says, and she stifles a giggle. As he whisks her away, he can’t help looking back and pulling the trigger. Bang, and the poor fool slumps to his knees as they ride into the sunset.
The eyes of the rocking horse are gaunt and sorrowful, for dust gathers in every crevice, settling like a funeral shroud. Thomas takes a deep breath and blows the dust from the horse’s eyes. The dust rises in swirling eddies; some clings to the surface and Thomas wipes the remains with the cuff of his sweater. Thomas lightly pushes the rocking horse. It rocks slightly and threatens to topple. Thomas reaches out and steadies it, steadies himself.
The agent climbs the chewed-up, decrepit stairs. It is an old house he’s trying to sell, one of the last of its kind in the neighborhood. His client had expressed interest in remodeling, or even starting from scratch. As he peeks into the attic, he sees Thomas sitting astride the rocking horse.
The agent quickly moves down the stairs, but they creak and betray him. Thomas calls out.
“I’ll take it.”
He battles one last night-horror, striking it down with a weary blow, full of inertia, and stares wistfully up at the empty tower.
He closes his eyes and leads the rocking horse away into oblivion.

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rchevalier
2007-11-14 11:58 pm UTC (link)

I picked up Thief of Time on Amazon a few days ago... Never have any time for the good 'ol bookstore anymore :(
Or the library?

Maybe you're selling 'em short ;) Though I doubt it... Yep, definitely doubt it.
I got stuck in a writing group with some jocks in my "college writing" class... they're thicker than bricks... I scribble all over their essays and then they don't even do anything, they turn it in and the teacher gives them As because he likes them... it's pathetic. :P

AP econ
Micro or macro?

Mmm, I like it. I think it'd do better fleshed out even more, but hey. XD Nice core for something longer, though, I like the concept. Maybe more fantasy things involving horses.

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-15 01:15 am UTC (link)

Our local library is a piece of ****, and the good one is a good half hour's drive :( I like the feeling of owning a book, and I can scribble stuff in the margins.

I got stuck in a writing group with some jocks in my "college writing" class... they're thicker than bricks... I scribble all over their essays and then they don't even do anything, they turn it in and the teacher gives them As because he likes them... it's pathetic. :P
Maybe it's a guy thing, but they're cool people to be around in short doses :)

It's always been easier for me to... assimilate, if that's the word, but then again, I'm not nearly as brilliant as yourself :D

Micro or macro?
I've actually got micro this semester and macro the next, although I don't learn anything in the class... I've read econ textbooks since 9th grade - Austrian School and some neoclassical stuff has always interested me.

Mmm, I like it. I think it'd do better fleshed out even more, but hey. XD Nice core for something longer, though, I like the concept. Maybe more fantasy things involving horses.
I'll definitely keep at it... And I saw that thing about nanowrimo on your front page. Wish I caught up to you sooner :(

Bleh, I've already got enough to do (but it sounds so uber-super-awesome!!!).

Here's something I wrote on the way home... I asked my friend to give me a random word, and I got "bus."

The wheels of the bus go ‘round and ‘round.
He stands at a corner of hapless destiny.
‘Round and ‘round.
He considers the strength of obsidian dreams.
‘Round and ‘round,
Garden hose in hand, he’s caught like a deer in headlights.
The wheels of the bus go ‘round and ‘round.
The asphalt opens up like an abyss, swallows dark and deep – a flash of yellow, a screech of brakes; “JAKE!”
All… through…
Somewhere, in the back of his mind, the Dreamcrusher grimaces – it’s a sick, sadistic business but the Dreamcrusher hums a cheery tune to pass the time, and it will be long before Daddy dreams again.

I was trying to show a little kid getting run over by a bus, but I didn't have enough time to think about the phrasing and the imagery (five minute time limit), and a lot of my quick stuff turns into mush. :)

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rchevalier
2007-11-16 01:50 am UTC (link)

I can scribble stuff in the margins.
Oh, you're one of those sorts! *scowls* Whenever I buy a used book, I alway find annoying commentary in the margins and it's... *thwacks*

It's always been easier for me to... assimilate, if that's the word, but then again, I'm not nearly as brilliant as yourself
*prods* It's not that I'm even a particularly good essay writer - I'm really not - but they're just... unbearably bad. Even me and my merely decentish essay skills just smear them. I hate required classes, you get all kinds of morons in them...

Maybe it's a guy thing, but they're cool people to be around in short doses :)
"short doses" doesn't count for anything with me. :P

I've actually got micro this semester and macro the next, although I don't learn anything in the class... I've read econ textbooks since 9th grade - Austrian School and some neoclassical stuff has always interested me.
Oh, lucky... my school only has macro...

I know virtually nothing about the Austrian School. To be honest, I was a very strong liberal before taking AP Econ, but now that I'm getting into how economics really work, I've been questioning it a fair bit. Ah, the wonders of an open mind... change it whenever you feel the need without shame...

And I saw that thing about nanowrimo on your front page. Wish I caught up to you sooner :(

Bleh, I've already got enough to do (but it sounds so uber-super-awesome!!!).
Oooh, it is. I'm falling behind (hit two blocks right in a row >.<) but it's just amazing. Such a rush to write yourself out like that.

On your prompt - more flesh! Don't go for super speed, go for length, allowing yourself instead just a reasonable time.

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-16 03:36 am UTC (link)

Oh, you're one of those sorts! *scowls* Whenever I buy a used book, I alway find annoying commentary in the margins and it's... *thwacks*
I've been pampered a little, I guess, but my parents pretty much have given me free rein over buying books on their tab. I think I've always lived the life of a "rich kid," but I've never felt that way... we have cable but I never watch the TV, I got a 1500 dollar budget for my laptop and I bought mine (love it to death!) for 600, stuff like that.

Anyway, without a pen, my mind wanders more than it should :(
I've always thought I've had a problem with that (because I don't remember it being a problem when I was younger)...

*prods* It's not that I'm even a particularly good essay writer - I'm really not - but they're just... unbearably bad. Even me and my merely decentish essay skills just smear them. I hate required classes, you get all kinds of morons in them...
Haha, I can't even think about most of my friends in an academic sense. The friends I've made in the higher classes aren't the people I normally hang out with.

"short doses" doesn't count for anything with me. :P
I wouldn't blame you :)

Oh, lucky... my school only has macro...
Buy an intro to micro book, if Reed requires an intro to micro credit. The AP exam is incredibly easy (and micro is too, of course), and it's probably worth the time.

I know virtually nothing about the Austrian School. To be honest, I was a very strong liberal before taking AP Econ, but now that I'm getting into how economics really work, I've been questioning it a fair bit. Ah, the wonders of an open mind... change it whenever you feel the need without shame...
I've just about had it with the Austrian School, as I've followed them for three years and seen them go... nowhere , despite (or maybe because of) their Ivory Tower attitude toward the academic mainstream. So I wouldn't advise you to get familiar with their line of work, although they're closer to original economic thought than most of the charlatans running around.

I'm very apprehensive about getting into economics at a time when mathematics rules the top ten research universities. I love economics because of its simplicity and apriori reasoning, and most of the modern stuff moves away from it.

Incidentally, I also dislike modern philosophy for most of the same reasons, with all that semantical crap.

Liberal doesn't mean a whole lot after all that political dilution, but I would generally classify myself as liberal in a social sense (pro-choice, pro-equal rights, all the simple, rational stuff), as well as in a classical, free-market sense. I'm also pretty much anarchist with regards to the legitimacy of government... go figure.

On your prompt - more flesh! Don't go for super speed, go for length, allowing yourself instead just a reasonable time.
I'll keep trying! I've never really considered writing outside of the English class before, but I'm starting to love it more and more. Two or three years ago, I was filling in requisite X number of cliches in a little piece and geting the A.

I wish English teachers would stop treating kids that can write coherently as if they're the best writers to ever grace the page. I can't stand the stuff I was doing back then, now.

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rchevalier
2007-11-16 10:38 pm UTC (link)

Honestly, do you have somewhere besides this little chain I can talk at you at?

Haha, I can't even think about most of my friends in an academic sense. The friends I've made in the higher classes aren't the people I normally hang out with.
In school, the vast majority of the people I hang out with are the nerdy group, the ones who gobble up all the AP classes. My net life is a bit more varied, but all the people I really get along with are intelligent (even if they're grades don't reflect it due to ~~spending too much time chatting on the internet~~ laziness.

Buy an intro to micro book, if Reed requires an intro to micro credit. The AP exam is incredibly easy (and micro is too, of course), and it's probably worth the time.,
I don't have time now - and it's not required, so I definitely don't. I'm definitely going to take more econ classes once I get to uni, though, it's such fascinating and important stuff...

I'm very apprehensive about getting into economics at a time when mathematics rules the top ten research universities. I love economics because of its simplicity and apriori reasoning, and most of the modern stuff moves away from it.
But how better to check and utilize theories through statistics? If you're always stuck with your head in the clouds, you're never going to do anything that's remotely useful for the systems you're supposed to be studying. :P

Liberal doesn't mean a whole lot after all that political dilution, but I would generally classify myself as liberal in a social sense (pro-choice, pro-equal rights, all the simple, rational stuff), as well as in a classical, free-market sense. I'm also pretty much anarchist with regards to the legitimacy of government... go figure.
*shrug* Easy label. I agree completely on the social matters, but... well, when it comes to big-G versus small-G etc., I'm feeling pretty murky about my views. Bless that class.

I wish English teachers would stop treating kids that can write coherently as if they're the best writers to ever grace the page.
I think coherency is an important thing to learn - my problem with how they teach English comes when they teach that anything that takes any amount of thought, things you might have to ponder or reread, are incoherent. As a writer, I think it is ideal to be able to write comfortably in multiple styles for different purposes.

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-17 12:28 am UTC (link)

Honestly, do you have somewhere besides this little chain I can talk at you at?
I'll think about it ;)

In school, the vast majority of the people I hang out with are the nerdy group, the ones who gobble up all the AP classes. My net life is a bit more varied, but all the people I really get along with are intelligent (even if they're grades don't reflect it due to spending too much time chatting on the internet laziness.
I'm taking multi-variable calculus this year at the local community college with eight of my classmates (we've been together as a class since the sixth grade), so I'm pretty close to that bunch (and they're usually in a few of my other classes, as well). I really don't have much of a presence online, though I've been active in a few debate forums that aren't dominated by uninteresting trolls and such. You don't do any forensics or anything, do you? I haven't seen you mention it, but I take a couple trips to extemp-speaking and PF tournaments on the east coast every year (probably only public forum this year).

LJ seems a bit overwhelming for me, at the time. Maybe after all this college crap has died down...

But how better to check and utilize theories through statistics? If you're always stuck with your head in the clouds, you're never going to do anything that's remotely useful for the systems you're supposed to be studying. :P
Statistics are for the weak :) You can derive all of the basic economic principles with the simple axiom that a rational actor only acts to to improve his situation as he sees it. A lot of really crappy economic thinking has been propagated by statistics-based or historical appeal.

Also, my head deals in logic more than it deals in fact, if that makes any sense.

*shrug* Easy label. I agree completely on the social matters, but... well, when it comes to big-G versus small-G etc., I'm feeling pretty murky about my views. Bless that class.
I'm currently sorting out those views with myself... I'm going through a bit of Rawls and some older social contract thinkers, but it's tough stuff to wade through. When you've got the idea in your head that all coercion must necessarily be immoral, any type of government is hard to justify, and it becomes so easy to just write off a lot of really good reasoning.

I think coherency is an important thing to learn - my problem with how they teach English comes when they teach that anything that takes any amount of thought, things you might have to ponder or reread, are incoherent. As a writer, I think it is ideal to be able to write comfortably in multiple styles for different purposes.
In some respects, I've been a product of that kind of teaching, I think, but I've read enough to recognize that.

That's probably why I was drawn to some of your writing :) And even if I can't get to your side of the story, I can interpret enough to put it in my perspective, which makes for interesting little thought sessions.

And your conventional prose is great, too. A cracking good read, and all that jazz.

And Thief of Time came in the mail today. I must say I'm a bit overwhelmed - so many good ideas, so artfully woven into a bigger picture. I'm not even halfway through it and I already want to reread. I love it.

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rchevalier
2007-11-17 03:48 pm UTC (link)

I'm taking multi-variable calculus this year at the local community college
Oooh, mv. Doing that next semester. :D How awesome is it?

You can derive all of the basic economic principles with the simple axiom that a rational actor only acts to to improve his situation as he sees it.
It's very easy to rationalize things working a certain way when you derive things from so-called "basic principles" only to be completely wrong because you don't take everything, or much of anything, into account. Statistics are important because you can prove whether the theories you derive work or not. Science. You come up with theories to explain things using mechanisms you know, and if they don't, you try and figure out the mechanisms to explain the evidence and keep trying until they match.

You don't do any forensics or anything, do you?
Nope. Conflicts with sci oly.

LJ seems a bit overwhelming for me, at the time.
Yeah. :P I'm generally a day or two behind in replying to comments and on commenting on friend's entries. It's a nice way to keep in touch with people, I definitely prefer it to stuff like MySpace or Facebook (which my rl friends seem to prefer, perhaps because they have nothing real to discuss. :P)

When you've got the idea in your head that all coercion must necessarily be immoral, any type of government is hard to justify,
But can't the ends ever justify the means? :P

And Thief of Time came in the mail today. I must say I'm a bit overwhelmed - so many good ideas, so artfully woven into a bigger picture. I'm not even halfway through it and I already want to reread. I love it.
Isn't it lovely? Pratchett is just... an amazing storyteller. He gets all these different ideas in and everything just clicks together and it all flows so smoothly and it's so poignant yet hilarious at the same time... he's not Joyce or anything, but in his own way he's just as good... he's amazingly prolific, also. It's a fair bit of reading to catch up to everything. :D

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-17 07:42 pm UTC (link)

Oooh, mv. Doing that next semester. :D How awesome is it?
We've only begun to delve into the actual "calculus" of it. There's a lot of background stuff for three dimensional coordinate systems we were never taught before.

It's very easy to rationalize things working a certain way when you derive things from so-called "basic principles" only to be completely wrong because you don't take everything, or much of anything, into account. Statistics are important because you can prove whether the theories you derive work or not. Science. You come up with theories to explain things using mechanisms you know, and if they don't, you try and figure out the mechanisms to explain the evidence and keep trying until they match.
Here's the thing: you will never be able to prove anything using statistics. For example, we can twist Newtonian mechanics to fit any case of general relativity; all we have to do is introduce a few more constants; it's what the Church did in the Middle Ages: convolute geocentric theories until they fit the bill. The philosophy of science is murky, and no hypothesis is ever completely falsible. In economics, this leads to proclamations that are blatantly false but that are also supported by statistics.

On the other hand, the axioms of Euclidean geometry give us a rich field of study that is completely self-contained. If instead of collecting data on, say, minimum wage, economists tried instead to improve upon the pre-existing axioms, we'd get a lot farther. I believe that economics is closer to mathematics than it is to biology or physics. It is impossible to know the underlying principles in those fields without experimentation, but I believe that human behavior can definitely be "axiom-ized," if you will. Human Action lays down the ground-rules.

Nope. Conflicts with sci oly.
It's a really big commitment, no?

Yeah. :P I'm generally a day or two behind in replying to comments and on commenting on friend's entries. It's a nice way to keep in touch with people, I definitely prefer it to stuff like MySpace or Facebook (which my rl friends seem to prefer, perhaps because they have nothing real to discuss. :P)
Ahh... facebook. What a grand experiment in attempting to stay in contact with a bunch of random people. I had one a year ago after a summer program with kids all around the state.

Myspace is much too screwy and perverted for little old me, or so I've been told.

But can't the ends ever justify the means? :P
It all starts breaking down when exceptions are made.

Also, voluntary government isn't all that hard to imagine. Voluntary taxation works as long as benefit outweighs cost.

Isn't it lovely? Pratchett is just... an amazing storyteller. He gets all these different ideas in and everything just clicks together and it all flows so smoothly and it's so poignant yet hilarious at the same time... he's not Joyce or anything, but in his own way he's just as good... he's amazingly prolific, also. It's a fair bit of reading to catch up to everything. :D
There are moments in the book where you can just imagine the twinkle in his eye when he put the pen to paper.

I haven't read Joyce in a pretty long time, and though I would definitely get a lot more out of a second reading, I don't think I'm quite up to it right now. :)

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rchevalier
2007-11-21 02:08 am UTC (link)

The philosophy of science is murky, and no hypothesis is ever completely falsible.
True; but you approach certainty. Just a theory without even an attempt at proving has absolutely no credence whatsoever besides an idle intellectual notion.

It is impossible to know the underlying principles in those fields without experimentation, but I believe that human behavior can definitely be "axiom-ized," if you will
Have you read Asimov's "Foundation" series? If not... check out 'psychohistory'... I'm sure you'll find it quite intriguing...

Ahh... facebook. What a grand experiment in attempting to stay in contact with a bunch of random people.
I eventually got one at the coaxing of rl friends. It's... pretty pointless. It works for very, very casual contact, but it's just completely meaningless. For friends that have moved out of state, it's like... OK, I see that he has "thrown a sheep at me", but I know nothing of recent developments in his life, nothing of how he feels beyond being "a chicken eater", and just try to have a conversation on "the wall", where everything you say is so completely public... perfect for today's society, come to think of it. :P

It all starts breaking down when exceptions are made.
As opposed to having something so rigid that it fails to be anything remotely human in sympathies.

Also, voluntary government isn't all that hard to imagine. Voluntary taxation works as long as benefit outweighs cost.
It works all well and good for charity things - Hurricane Katrina etc. - but for the mundane things that receive little media attention like streetcleaners? And if all the money comes from the people who have money - the rich people, that is - only "rich people causes" are going to really stay supported... in this system it isn't much different but at least there's a pretense of otherwise...

I haven't read Joyce in a pretty long time, and though I would definitely get a lot more out of a second reading, I don't think I'm quite up to it right now. :)
Joyce is lovely. :) I'm making a point of rereading them all every year, along with the holy books and a few other works...

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-21 02:21 pm UTC (link)

True; but you approach certainty. Just a theory without even an attempt at proving has absolutely no credence whatsoever besides an idle intellectual notion.
The thing is, science, traditionally, hasn't worked like that. What we do have are paradigm shifts and such and such, but on the whole, science advances breakthrough by breakthrough. And I don't think we're talking about "intellectual notion." A theory that exists in a vacuum doesn't necessarily mean that it's inapplicable (sp?) in the real world. What it does change is the way to destroy such theories.

1) You prove that the logical progression isn't sound. "B" doesn't follow from "A" - stuff like that.
2) You show that the assumptions, the starting point, don't hold in the real world. But this type of approach can be mitigated by choosing assumptions that are usually extremely broad (man only acts to improve his situation)

Have you read Asimov's "Foundation" series? If not... check out 'psychohistory'... I'm sure you'll find it quite intriguing...
I've read a lot of Asimov - so much so that I've forgotten a lot of what I've read - and I've probably hit one of those up a time ago...

I'll take another look; the Wikipedia for the series doesn't give me any underlying theory. Do you know anything more about it?

As opposed to having something so rigid that it fails to be anything remotely human in sympathies.
In universal rigidity we find a universal potential for freedom.

It works all well and good for charity things - Hurricane Katrina etc. - but for the mundane things that receive little media attention like streetcleaners? And if all the money comes from the people who have money - the rich people, that is - only "rich people causes" are going to really stay supported... in this system it isn't much different but at least there's a pretense of otherwise...
It all depends on your original values. Street cleaning has a subjective value, and economics tells us that with properly defined property rights, we can best approximate this value.

Rich people pay more for security because they have more to lose, and it is in their best interests to work with others (again, through economic principles).

For a discussion of most government policies in general, I would recommend Henry Hazlitt's Economics in One Lesson. I didn't explain this very well, and I'll amend this later... I'm in the middle of English class.

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(Anonymous)
2007-11-21 05:05 pm UTC (link)

I was getting cramped, but about this comment:
In universal rigidity we find a universal potential for freedom.

A system of property rights allows for some pretty atrocious things. Drug companies can exploit live-saving medicines for huge gains; safety standards would probably be a lot less stringent in a completely privatized environment; child labor would be far more prevalent; a free society can't prevent these things from popping up.

However, in a "rigid system" does have to potential to solve any of these problems. Through contracts, information sharing, and things like boycotts and protests, the constituents of a "rigid system" can accomplish anything coercion can, providing they give up something in exchange.

Anyway, coercion is pretty much getting something without giving up something in exchange, and basic economics tells us that that is not efficient.

Also, rigidity in lack of coercion is more properly stated as freedom from coercion.

Imagine a housing contract. Incredibly complex, no? But do we pore through every page and check on it constantly? In a private government system, everything would be in the form of a contract. Police, justice system, fire department, etc. And you could reject that contract at any time. So yeah, street cleaners would remain relatively unknown, but they would be paid for.

And it would probably be a whole lot more efficient.

(Reply to this)

(Anonymous)
2007-11-21 05:42 pm UTC (link)

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